Patch: Original Installation Source

[Dalli]

Hello,
I changed from Installshield Express to IA. Now I have a problem building patches for my applications. I'm always prompted for the "Original Installation Source". I think patches builded in IS never prompted me that question?
Please help me - I think you should have an easy solution for me. Please to not tell me to use web based installations. I have already a CD ROM out with a single exe file and my costumers do not have access to the web!

[MichaelNesmith]

Please read the help file topic Patching, subtopic Patch Source Resolution for a detailed explanation and solution for this issue.

[Dalli]

Yes but if I have distributed a CD ROM with a single exe file I have not many possibilities?
How does InstallShiled manage it that I could create Patches?

[MichaelNesmith]

Its not an apples to apples comparison. A lot of versions of InstallShield already cache your setup sources on the hard disk, so the patches can find them. This is what InstallAware's web builds also do. You do not need to use an Internet connection at any time with a web build. Please read the help file to find out more.

[Dalli]

Hello,
I'm not comparing apples with apples. I love your product, but I was used to build patches in the way installshield does it. My problem now is that I have rolled out a version on CD ROM as a single exe file. So I could not build your compressed Web-Based EXE for this release.

[MichaelNesmith]

Oh, I thought you'd already read the help file entry I had pointed you at. Here it is for your convenience:

Source Resolution for Compressed Builds

When the setup runs, it will prompt for the original source media. At this point, the user will need to run the self extracting .EXE file that comprises the compressed build. When this file is running, as part of the setup initialization routine, it will extract its contents to a subfolder of the system temporary folder. The user will have to navigate into the system temporary folder, determine which subfolder contains the setup sources (by trial and error if necessary), and choose that in the source media browser.

Because this is a largely inconvenient way for end-users to apply a patch, Compressed Builds are not recommended as the targets of patches.

[Dalli]

Thanks but you are right this solution is not very easy to understand for my costumers. I think I will use a good old tool which is called PatchMaker for patches. This tool produces no msi patches but I think they will do their job!

[MichaelNesmith]

Or, you could just deploy web builds to your customers, which you can make identical to single file builds (i.e. they contain all setup files inside), other than that they cache their sources automatically on the system.

[Dalli]

How do you do that? It sounds interesting for future projects. At the moment all my files are burned on may CD ROMs and on their way.

[MichaelNesmith]

Set all your web media blocks to offline blocks. In the Web Media Blocks design view, simply edit each web media block displayed in the list, deleting their name in the Define Web Media Block dialog. Do this for all of them - this will convert all your web media blocks to offline blocks, if you look in the MSIcode view.

[TMacy]

Ok... you can prepare to flame away. We switched to InstallAware from Wise because I wanted more control of the UI. The Web Media Blocks in the feature list looked great. So, we build a significant install for a major customer. It has 15 web media blocks. But we created it as a single compressed exe and it has been distributed on CD.

Our goal was to be able to provide small updates via the web by just rebuilding the install as a web based install, assuming that the web install would do a full install for a customer that didn't want to wait for a CD, or would update the 3 or 4 web media blocks that are most likely to change over time.

Are you telling me that because we put an install out on the CD as a single compressed EXE, we lost the ability for our customers to do web-updates that will only download the updated web media blocks?

I cringe as I ask this, because I expect to get the standard "it's in the documentation" response. Personally, I'm not sure it is. I see a lot of documentaiotn that uses phrases that were for prior versions of InstallAware, and if you weren't running those prior versions, it makes it very difficult to follow. But in any case... we are a 5 person, 2 developer company. We struggle to keep current with the things that affect our apaplication. I have no interest in being told "this is how MSI works" or whatever.

I asked for contacts of InstallAware consultants that I could hire to build the install framework for us, but I didn't get a response. I don't want to become an installation guru. I just want a process where we can put out a CD with the full application, and let a user update it easily with web downloads. Are we going to be able to do that with InstallAware?

I apologize for my attitude, but I've read about 15 threads this evening, that all pertain to issues that we have, and in every one of them, you point back to documenation, or say "it's how MSI works", or whatever. And in none of the threads, have I come away with an understanding of what I CAN do. I have learned that I cannot do a compressed EXE on my CD, but I'm not clear why we have to clear the filename from the web media blocks to make them work as "offline", and if that means they won't work for web updates. And I've learned that I can't put an application out that doesn't go through a 30 second "InstallAware is checking the validity of the install" advertisement, or remove the InstallAware advertisement from the other places it pops up, even though I have purchased a license to the product. And I've learned that I cannot create an updated install that will simply update previously installed components, w/o uninstalling the existing application, removing any matching registry settings, etc. I'm sorry... but the old Archaic Wise package is looking better all the time

Is this the price we have to pay for "Microsoft compatibility"?

End of vent.

[MichaelNesmith]

Ok... you can prepare to flame away.

No flames, but I will refer you to the documentation again in this post

Are you telling me that because we put an install out on the CD as a single compressed EXE, we lost the ability for our customers to do web-updates that will only download the updated web media blocks?

Not at all. The two are unrelated. A web media block is a MSIcode statement which tells the setup compiler how to separate your setup into multiple online and offline pieces; and has effect only when web builds are used as your setup build mode. Read the help file topic "Web Media Block" for more information.

I see a lot of documentaiotn that uses phrases that were for prior versions of InstallAware, and if you weren't running those prior versions, it makes it very difficult to follow.

Would you mind listing some topics here, so I can escalate them to the documentation team and get them fixed?

I have no interest in being told "this is how MSI works" or whatever.

InstallAware does its best at all times to protect you from MSI internals. But after all, InstallAware is an MSI tool. If we had our native setup engine, a lot of these issues would be no-brainers to solve. But we are trying to bring you the best technology and the best standards compliance, so there is some inevitable compromise involved.

I asked for contacts of InstallAware consultants that I could hire to build the install framework for us, but I didn't get a response.

Sorry about that! Please email or call sales at any time for a quote on your installation project.

I just want a process where we can put out a CD with the full application, and let a user update it easily with web downloads. Are we going to be able to do that with InstallAware?

Certainly. I don't think anything posted on this thread contradicts that.

I'm not clear why we have to clear the filename from the web media blocks to make them work as "offline", and if that means they won't work for web updates.

For more details on InstallAware's partial web deployment scheme, please read this whitepaper:

http://www.installaware.com/installawar ... oyment.pdf

And I've learned that I can't put an application out that doesn't go through a 30 second "InstallAware is checking the validity of the install" advertisement

This isn't an advertisement, but the self extractor of your setup as it is working.

or remove the InstallAware advertisement from the other places it pops up, even though I have purchased a license to the product.

You can. Just edit the shared setup strings.

Is this the price we have to pay for "Microsoft compatibility"?

InstallAware attempts to offer the convenience of the old WiseScript setup mechanism for the Windows Installer platform. We acknowledge that having more whitepapers and examples could help, and are constantly improving our documentation.

[TMacy]

I scanned the help briefly, but I don't recall the specific topics with issues. I'll drop you a note in the future when I run into them. The one that I do recall is the transition you are making between "support files" and "creatives". Most of the help system talks about create this kind of support file, and that kind of support file from the support files dialog, but it is called "Creatives" in the latest UI. In the Creatives topic, you talk about Suppot Files, but nothing in Support Files talks about using the Creatives UI entry to deal with them.

The links you pointed to talk about product codes, upgrade codes, and revision codes. But in my UI, I have no upgrade code property on the Project Properties dialog.

I have read all of the links you have pointed to many times, and I'm still not clear on the place for updates vs patches, and if patches are independent of Web Media Blocks, etc. I'll try to summarize the two scanrios I want to address and start a new thread. I apologize for hijacking this one.

[MichaelNesmith]

The one that I do recall is the transition you are making between "support files" and "creatives".

The Project Manager refers to these files as Support Files, and the design view has a view called Creatives which displays a subset of your Support Files. This is all intentional. If you switch to the MSIcode view, you can see the full list of support files, which is not always exposed in the creatives view.

The links you pointed to talk about product codes, upgrade codes, and revision codes. But in my UI, I have no upgrade code property on the Project Properties dialog.

It's right there. Press CTRL+SHIFT+F11. Choose the Project node.

[RobertKozak]

And I've learned that I can't put an application out that doesn't go through a 30 second "InstallAware is checking the validity of the install" advertisement

This isn't an advertisement, but the self extractor of your setup as it is working.

or remove the InstallAware advertisement from the other places it pops up, even though I have purchased a license to the product.

You can. Just edit the shared setup strings.

I have to pop in here with my $0.02. There are a number of places where your product displays name that cannot be removed. Every window title has InstallAware in it and you even stick a menu item for an about box on the windows menu on every install built with InstallAware.

Maybe your marketing dept. doesn't really know your target market. I know for a fact that my customers are not your target market. Maybe your marketing dept. should think more about marketing to other developers.

I know I am not alone in this thinking because I see this come up in a few threads and many people have shown dissatisfaction with this policy.

Please reconsider this.

-- Robert